A little over a week ago, I posted up to see if we had any Rets out there who would be willing to answer some Retribution PvP questions. Tazak and Schei stepped up to the plate, and I now give you their take on Ret PvP.
Every player has a different approach, and it’s good for us all to take a look and see what others are doing! Thanks to the both of you!
Senior Sergeant Tazak
Crushridge
What Ret build/spec are you currently using?
I am currently 7 / 11 / 51. For my 2s, I wanted to make sure I got improved hammer and it is quite useful in all situations to have a reduced CD for our stun.
What gems do you use for BGs?
You use the same as you do in arenas, STR unless to satisfy meta sockets and or the bonus is strength.
What gems do you use for Arenas?
Same as BGs.
What glyphs are you using?
I am currently using Glyph of Judgement, Glyph of Exorcism, and Glyph of Fear Undead for dealing with DK’s gargoyles, pet, and Warlock pets.
Are there any enchants you use that differ from PvE Ret?
The only different enchants are the helm and chest enchants which give attack power and resilience.
Recommended FCFS rotation?
Judgement > Hammer of Wrath > Crusader Strike > Divine Storm > Exorcism > Consecrate (Rarely, almost a waste of mana).
What PvE/Tier gear pieces do you use?
For BGs I use the T10 Helm and Gloves for fun, in arenas I rarely use them.
Best PvP Ret trinkets?
Best trinkets for PvP are the 264 PvP Trinket and Battlemaster(Attack Power).
What is your minimum recommended resilience for BGs?
You should be doing BGs no matter what your resilience.
What is your minimum recommended resilience for Arenas (2v2, 3v3, 5v5)?
You should be doing Arenas no matter what your resilience for points a week so you can get better gear. This frustrates me when people say, “Oh I’m not going to do arenas because my gear is bad”, that makes no sense. How are you supposed to get gear?
What 2v2 classes go best with Ret?
Mage, Rogue, or Death Knight. I run Boomkin / Ret which is rather unorthodox but works out alright.
What 3v3 classes go best with Ret?
I have yet to try 3’s so far. But from what I know, Hunter / Ret / Shaman works great, or replace the Shaman with a Priest.
What 5v5 classes go best with Ret?
I don’t do 5’s.
Suggested add-ons?
Add-ons are all up to you, but for Arenas I recommend Gladius which is an arena frame mod.
General PvP Ret strategies?
One of the biggest problems that I see other Paladins NOT doing is switching Auras for specific fights. Having Shadow or Frost aura makes a world of difference against a Warlock / Priest / Mage as certain spells have a greater chance to be resisted as well as damage reduction. While casters now socket Spell Penetration to about 120 to bypass it, you do get some resistance and ultimately benefits you in the end.
Hammer / Repetance / (Torrent if you are a Belf) management. While we can do amazing burst, we have barely any ways of interrupting and against high resilience targets, timing is everything. It’s just a matter of biding your time to getting your opponent into a position where they can’t afford to be interrupted by repentance / hammer / or torrent.
If you are ever in a 1v1 versus say a Shaman / Holy Paladin / Druid, or any type of wall with big hp and survivability, switch to Seal of Corruption. Getting near 900 ticks is invaluable to taking them down.
Sacred Shield is your friend and absorbs a huge amount of damage in a fight as well as helps you out with critting your flashes. It is a hassle to maintain the spell but if you can keep it up at all times, you will stay alive much longer.
One thing to is never EVER Judgement a target with a protective shield such as Ice Armor, Priest Bubble, or anything of that sort. If a Judgement is absorbed, you gain NO mana back at all. So use other abilities to break the shield first, then Judgement.
There are many many things that I have not mentioned in this little article about strategies but most of them are things that you just learn on your own. If you want to try out something new in a build, do it. Want to try out a glyph? Do it. Ret Paladins have no one perfect way to play them and are versatile to different play styles. Trying to find your own and what works for you is the hardest part.
Schei
Kil’Jaeden
What Ret build/spec are you currently using?
I just recently started PvPing on my main (for the first time since 2.4), so i’m still getting all my PvP gear (I’m currently in a full suit of Relentless gear) and as such my spec has much more survivability than my tournament realm character’s. In optimal gear, I go with 7/11/51 for Sacrifice and fear/blind reduction.
What gems do you use for Arenas?
I stack Str once Hit capped; Nightmare Tear and Relentless Earthsiege meta.
What gems do you use for BGs?
Pretty much the same as for arenas.
What glyphs are you using?
Glyphs of Seal of Righteousness, Judgement and Salvation. Salvation can be replaced with Exorcism depending on teammates.
Are there any enchants you use that differ from PvE Ret?
I use the Triumph Arcanum and Inscription on my main for the extra Res, but on my arena char I don’t need it so I go for the standard Crit enchants.
Recommended FCFS rotation?
In arenas I generally use HoJ > CS > DS > Ex > Cons (if in a group).
What PvE/Tier gear pieces do you use?
None. I prefer the PvP 4-set bonus. But if anything PvE, I’d recommend the T9 or T10 2-set bonuses for the extra long-term and burst damage.
Best PvP Ret trinkets?
On my tournament toon, I use the Medallion of the Horde; the resilience is amazing and the cooldown is practically mandatory.
What is your minimum recommended resilience for BGs?
BGs are basically giant HK orgies, so I imagine more Res couldn’t hurt. There’s probably a recommended cap, but I don’t BG seriously enough to know it.
What is your minimum recommended resilience for Arenas (2v2, 3v3, 5v5)?
I’mma stick to 3v3 cause I have the most experience there. Anywhere from 20-25% is good enough for me as long as there is a healer in the group. In DPS only teams, which btw I won’t ever recommend for 3s, more res might be necessary (or maybe less for more damage).
What 2v2 classes go best with Ret?
Either an awesome full-time healer with an incredibly damaging Ret, or a good hybrid like a Shaman who can off-heal and still deal decent damage. I’ve also seen Rogue, Warr, and Mage perform well with Ret.
What 3v3 classes go best with Ret?
My arena team is rocking Frost Mage, Resto Druid and Ret Pally, but I’ve seen Warrs, Locks, and Shammies all do well with them.
What 5v5 classes go best with Ret?
Dunno, all of the above?
General PvP Ret strategies?
While Ret is not a perfect PvP spec, I think there are only 2 major problems with their metagame that are noticeable and/or frustrating in combat: lack of a gap closer, as every melee class has one (even rogues with sprint/stealth) except Ret and Prot Pallies. Prot however has AS which helps to approach safely. Ret has no long-range approaches besides Repentance, which isn’t a gap closer anyway, and is a spell we’d rather save for interrupting, which is their other problem. Even as a Blood Elf, Ret Pallies don’t have a long-lasting interrupt to make safe approaches, so precise use of our limited interrupts is mandatory.
In arenas, I find the best ‘approach’ is to simply never leave melee range. This may seem obvious, but can still be difficult to do. HoJ is the key to keeping a foe in melee range constantly. Save Repentance for foes who can escape melee quickly (like Mages and Hunters), especially if they are strong ranged attackers (like Mages and Hunters).
Remember to use Sacred Shield, occasionally use instant FoL on yourself for the crit HoT, and change Auras when necessary.
Suggested add-ons?
I used to use Arena Unit Frames, but Gladius is way better.
*Got another bit of input from the forums, so adding more!
Torment
Malfurion
What Ret build/spec are you currently using?
3/17/51 Wanted Imp hammer of course and Imp Righteous Fury(all damage reduced by 6%) – who wouldnt want that?
What gems do you use for BGs?
Meta – Relentless Earthseige (+21 Agility – 3% crit damage)
Red – Bold Cardinal(+20 Strength) or Jewelcrafters Bold Dragon’s Eye(+34 Strength)
Blue – Sovereign Dreadstone(+10 Strength – 15 Stamina) – Just started building my pvp set so im thinking highly about survivability – so more life survive longer right?
Yellow – Inscribed Ametrine(10 Strength – 15 Crit) Get all those socket bonuses
What gems do you use for Arenas?
Was looking for Arena partners but recently transferred so getting to know people before I just jump into it with random people…
What glyphs are you using?
Major
Seal of Righteousness – Seal does 10% more damage
Divine Storm – Divine storm heals 15% more – This is HUGE for me since im using my 2pc T10(More Survivability mindset)
Judgement – Judgements deal 10% more damage
Minor
Sense Undead
Lay on Hands
Blessing of Might – All the minors are just fillers… none of them are of really any use
Are there any enchants you use that differ from PvE Ret?
I have not changed my because I think I can get the resilence I want on the gear so enchanting for better stats is more important
Recommended FCFS rotation?
Judgement > Hammer of Wrath > Divine Storm > Crusaders Strike > Exorcism > Consecration(might stop using this because of what the other guy said about it kind of being a mana dump… too easy for people to run out of so does like no damage for alot of mana…)
What PvE/Tier gear pieces do you use?
Currently using Head/Chest – planning on switching to Chest/Legs instead to get the bigger stats off of the Tier gear and keep my 2pc bonus.
Best PvP Ret trinkets?
Currently using Medallion of the Horde and Tiny Abom – the motes dont go away so always have the chance of getting the extra swing in right when you need it! Plus the hit rating helps… planning on buying different pieces to get my 8% hit back because I almost nerd rage and punch my screen when I get frozen in place some how and have just a slivery of life left on my opponent and my HoW misses. Hit IS VERY important in pvp dont let retards tell you otherwise.
What is your minimum recommended resilience for BGs?
I got about 500 before I started and was fine.
What is your minimum recommended resilience for Arenas (2v2, 3v3, 5v5)?
You should be doing Arenas no matter what your resilience for points a week so you can get better gear. This frustrates me when people say, “Oh I’m not going to do arenas because my gear is bad”, that makes no sense. How are you supposed to get gear?
I agree with this but… I don’t to be honest because I hate losing and this is all that would happen and taunt from people when they notice your low rating. So I personally would wait till 800-1000 resilence
What 2v2 classes go best with Ret?
DPS class I think.. could go healer but I think it would be a pain in the ass to worry about the healer plus do good dps in arena.
What 3v3 classes go best with Ret?
Any DPS + Any Healer – or 3 DPS classes I think could be viable
What 5v5 classes go best with Ret?
Anything 5v5 can be weird hard to determine what you need for what situations
Suggested add-ons?
I use everything! Bartender is one of my favorites umm I use Capping Battleground Timers cause my guild requires DXE instead of DBM and dont wanna be turning on/off mods
General PvP Ret strategies?
-Sacred shield!
-HEAL yourself!… Lots of times I go up against other rets who just try to nuke me down rather than heal themselves.
-Dont be retarded travel in groups 3 vs YOU is amusing if you win but almost always a loss.
-Help others… you have heals even though your not a healing spec… you can still toss them a heal if they need it!
-Symbol of Kings are cheap bring reagents and buff people!
-Kill Gnomes first… cause its fun!
Come on Khor! You can do better. Who is Shei? Have u seen his build or gear or even arena rating? I don’t have any personal problem with him or anyone else, but come on! I mean it. Your blog provides the best info about rets. Why have you screw the pvp topic so much? From all rets who respect themselves, who would ever spend a single point on anticipation?
I personally have played seriously only 2v2 arena (1200), so I cannot judge anyone. But from a little search on internet i have found some general guidelines to play along, which are way different from what o have read in this page.
Question to Tazak: Is it possible for a ret to kill a healer without the burst from 2T10 bonus?
Question to everybody: With what gear can u be hitcapped on pvp? Because if one goes just full pvp gear. his hit rating would be something like 2% :D, or in other words, he will hit air all the time.
(Personally, as a human ret, i use the 245 trinket which gives hit rating)
Sorry for my tone, but it is a pity to let this blog be less awesome than it is.
I appreciate the compliments DrV! I understand when reading this you might expect to see elite PvPers here, and who knows they may or may not be, but that wasn’t the point of this topic.
My goal was to let Rets see what other Ret PvPers are doing, because there is such a broad scale of gameplay for us here.
I wouldn’t look at this as, “this is what everyone should be doing”. Look at this more as am insight to how other players take on PvP.
I was hoping for a bit more input from other Rets, but these two were the only ones that stepped up to the plate! So they have my support, regardless of their build, gear, and opinions 🙂
I liked the general strategies part of the article, goes in line with my limited experience. Keep the info flowing because someday I’ll PvP 😀
Thank you Schei and Tazak for standing up and sharing your info, as ret i go into BGs, i do not arena so getting some info about that is fun to read.
and as per normal thanks Khor
To DrV:
Question to Tazak: Is it possible for a ret to kill a healer without the burst from 2T10 bonus?
For sure it is, but usually the fight will be lengthy. You just have to switch to Seal of Corruption for that extra bit of DoT damage. Timing of interrupts is vital, as is Damage CDs and what not. But this all completely changes when another person is thrown into the fray if either in arenas or BGs.
Question to everybody: With what gear can u be hitcapped on pvp? Because if one goes just full pvp gear. his hit rating would be something like 2% , or in other words, he will hit air all the time.
You either have to socket some hit in your PvP gear, get the hit rating based Wrathful cloak and neck to cover this. Or you can always get the WG 251 Shoulders, ICC Rep ring to cover hit. I have a +20 hit in my boots, WG shoulders, hit from my ICC ring, and the hit Wrathful neck piece.
@DrVavylis: I understand exactly why you feel that way; I would too. Everything I said was just my personal research and experience as a PvP Ret Pally, and I can’t force you to acknowledge it as the best. However, what Khor says about there being myriad possible Ret builds is most definitely true, and this is something the community accepts. Please just think of my build as another possible choice. 🙂
In addition, I’d like to make a few refinements to my build; particularly in gear. The [Medallion of the Horde] is better replaced by the [Titan-forged Rune of Determination] (AP>Res). I also recently learned about the incredible value of the T10 2-set bonus in PvP, and I admit I should’ve realized its potential ages ago considering how long it’s been available. The refreshed DSs give Ret outstanding burst potential, the only downside is the huge mana consumption.
I have yet to experiment with it myself, but I’mma try a few different gear/glyph/seal combos revolving around T10-2 on my Tournament char later this week.
PS: Thanks for the feature, Khor, and good luck on the field of battle! I’ll update my info and post it here as soon as I can.
@DrV
It is an actual decent ability to point dip into, It may not seem like it but the extra point there may help. And also, im not sure you have much room to be giving pointers if you only ever got to 1200 rating.. No offense, but my 12 year old brother is running 2200 rating on his warr.
I really appreciate this blog and especially this post. I’m an 80 retpally whose guild disbanded around lvl 60, so I spent the last 20 levels solo and just started doing bgs about a month ago.
I’m horrible.
After losing 4 bgs in a row, I had a guy whisper me the other day in a random isle of conquest, and he said, “u should leave. u r bad.” Since then, I’ve been scouring the internet for knowledge so I can get better. Now I think I’ve got some good stuff to try out.
Thanks.
@Tazak, getting hit capped with PVP gear is entirely possible. We only require 5% hit, which if I remember correctly (drunk at the point of typing this), is 164 rating. 170 rating can be accomplished with honor points solely, by getting the ring RG’s Band of Victory (50 hit), WG’s Pendant of Victory (60 hit), and WG’s Cloak of Victory (60 hit).
There is PVP gear with hit on it. Anything with the suffix “of Victory” will have hit on it, and it’s not hard for both melee AND casters to reach it. In fact casters only need 4%.
But regardless, my point is, PVE gear is not ACTUALLY necessary. It just depends how you value your class’ PVE bonuses vs the PVP bonuses.
Sorry, misread the quote in Tazak’s post. Apparently my post was directed at DrV. Sorry for the confusion. Again, I’m drunk. XD
DELETED. Please refrain from any negative or harsh criticism. Flaming, trolling, and any form of insulting is not permitted here. I have a zero tolerance policy on player bashing of any kind.
About the great consercrate debate, from personal BG experience ive found Con in very valuable against rouges…it will break them out of stealth before they get a chance to sap you….just my opinion…thanx to khor for this brilliant site