Ret Input Needed

I need some input from you guys, and I am hoping a few of these topics may help some other players as well.  It is always great to hear viewpoints from other players, so let’s see what everyone has to say.

Since Cataclysm has launched, we have been sorting through all kinds of crazy new content, some that is awesome, and others that make you want to bang your head against a wall.

Personally, I have found my happy medium, with even heroics becoming a non-issue…at least during guild runs.  My DPS is satisfactory, and I feel I am close to being ready to start raiding (I probably was there last week, but oh well).

Here are the subjects I would like some input on, and we can toss around some discussion in the comments here:

Tol Barad Balance Issues

It would seem that Tol Barad defense has an overwhelming advantage, and it takes a superhuman effort to take over Tol Barad from the opposing faction.

On my server, we (Alliance) held TB for almost 4 days straight.  Now Horde has control after a wee morning hours take-over, and has held onto it for 2 days solid.

The major issue lies in taking over 3 objectives at once as the assaulting team is very, very difficult, when all the enemy has to do is amass on one objective to keep you from taking over.  So long as they clump up on one objective, it’s pretty hard to wrestle it from their grasp.

In terms of balancing this out, I’m not really sure where to start…but it does seem pretty clear defense has an overwhelming advantage in Tol Barad’s current state.  Thoughts?  Or has anyone seen different?

DPS with Average 346 Item Level

My DPS has been very satisfactory as gear continues to build.  Heroic boss fights in 5-mans are now hovering in the 10k+ range, and I have seen logs of other Retribution Paladins pushing 13 to 14k.

The question for me isn’t can we do competitive single target DPS…my question is more intricate, and I’d love to know how much Mastery is being stacked for you guys topping 10k DPS?

I am hit and expertise capped, with focus on crit and haste (in that order).  Mastery is the stat being reforged into others as needed, but I am curious how much Mastery Rating you guys are using at that 10k to 14k DPS level.

Seal of Righteousness

After some extensive testing in PvE environments and dungeon runs, most of you who visit this site know my disdain for Seal of Righteousness.  Now, I have had a chance to test it in PvP, and it is simply awful.  It’s like trying to stop a tank with a pellet gun.

Seal of Righteousness needs an overhaul in my opinion, simply dishing out more damage to remain a competitive seal.  As of right now, Seal of Truth is the everything seal of choice, hands down.

Other Issues

If there are any other issues you guys have, feel free to make note of them in the comments below.  Thanks in advance for your time and input!


  1. Raedos says:

    I avg around 14k a boss fight, upwards to 17-19k in fights where there’s very little movement.

    My avg ilvl is 350, my mastery is 853, haste is 1185, crit is 1642.
    I have reforged most of my stuff to hit and crit, and I use Whitefin Axe with berserking enchant.

    I made a few macros that I think help alot and ill share them;

    #showtooltip Avenging Wrath
    /cast Avenging Wrath
    /cast Hammer of Wrath
    /use Figurine – King of Boars (your trinket if you have one to pop)
    /cast Guardian of Ancient Kings

    #showtooltip Zealotry
    /cast Zealotry
    /cast Templar’s Verdict

    #showtooltip Holy Wrath
    /castsequence reset=14 Holy Wrath, Consecration

    I would start a boss fight by building up my SoT to 5 stacks then getting off a 3hp Inquisition, then right after hitting my AW macro twice so HoW goes off right as AW is cast(so you can get 4 HoW casts off with the AW duration) , and casting zealotry right after AW ended in Zealotry I prioritize (IQ @ 1s or less > TV > Exo > CS), then normally I prioritize (IQ 3HP @ 5s or less > HoW > TV @ 3HP > Exo > CS > Judge > HW > Conc) I count HoL proc as hitting 3HP aswell.

    I found that with AW duration if you dont get a HoW off right off the start of the timer you can only get 3 off, so the first macro helps with being fast, and I believe thats the time GoAK will give the greatest dps increase.

    2nd macro helps casting a TV right after Zealotry so no time is wasted, and the 3rd macro just makes Aoeing easier by putting HW and conc on the same button if your running out of space for hotkeys like me.

    Thats all I have to share about what I do when Dpsing.

  2. Khor says:

    That’s awesome, Raedos, thank you!

  3. Geddyn says:

    Easy way to make Tol Barad more balanced:

    – The attackers must control two of the three towers in order to start a 10 minute victory timer.
    – While the timer is active, the defenders can attempt to retake the towers held by the attackers. If they succeed, the timer is reset until the attackers regain control of two towers.
    – If the timer expires or the attackers capture the third tower, the attackers win.

  4. Darthal says:

    Raedos does basically the same thing as me, I have 900 mastery and i am finding it more and more useful, definitely more useful than haste at higher levels, I’d say it has an exponential effect.

  5. Rolanor says:

    With Cata changing so much stuff and stat priorities I have heard reports of haste>crit and crit>haste. I personally go for more haste, and I get 16-17k on a stand-still fight like Argaloth (ilvl 350). I have not extensively tested a crit build or mastery build. Haste is at 1796, crit 1279, mastery 277, hit and exp capped.

    I’ll follow this discussion, I’m really interested by what will become best stat!

  6. cfeduke says:

    Definitely find Raedos’ macro useful. I’ve been doing those keypresses manually so far and if its something FCFS needs less of its key presses. Going to incorporate that into what I’ve been doing.

    I am running with Crit 1710, Haste 1032, Mastery 683, Hit capped, Expertise at 25 with SoT. My gemming is anything but ideal at this point (greens I used to level with, and with no valid meta choice at this time…). I am reforging hit overages into haste and have reforged mastery into haste, so hit/exp/haste/crit/mastery presently.

    That being said I average 10K DPS in heroics, or about 14K on most heroic boss fights (when I can stand still long enough to not screw up FCFS). On Magmaw I was able to get up to about 17K, though our last kill for Halfus my DPS was just plain atrocious (13665 – 7th overall – but compare to our MT warrior @ 18272 and 3rd overall – a little depressing).

    Previously I played around with prioritizing mastery over all other stats after hit/expertise capping. It was a fair number of procs as you’d expect. In 5 mans I was about 9K at the time but I’ve since had substantial gear upgrades. I may try this again as an experiment.

    Since Templar’s Verdict is 17% of my damage and my highest damaging attack at my present mastery level I am curious to see what re-prioritizing mastery would do. I’m going to guess probably a DPS loss but perhaps worth trying at least to verify this.

  7. Captoats says:

    TB – Whoever has the most bases at the end of the allowed time. Actually puts offense at a little advantage, but that is actually preferred imo, gets the ownership switched up more often.

    i346 dps – I’m averaging 13k as a minimum at an i343 (mostly ungemmed and unenchanted) on heroic boss fights. 7.91%hit, 15exp, 1756haste, 1066crit, 487mastery. I spike up to 17-20k towards the beginning of a fight, then it slowly averages out to ~13-15k at the end. Wings+pet at the beginning, save zeal for BL/TW. Start a fight with Salv > Wings+pet+HoW > J > (inq if HoL/DP proc) > CS > inq if i didn’t already > normal priority. Normal priority is Inq > HoW > Exo > TV3hp > CS > J > HW, don’t bother with consec, huge mana dump. For undeads/demons, switch exo/how. Don’t let Inq fall off, even if you have to pop in a 1hp inq, 30% increase to ~60% of our damage.

    For AoE situations, CS is almost always better than DS. Sadly, our cleave is weak.

    Also, I’ve noticed a lot of people having trouble with zealotry. When you use zealotry, your fcfs is STILL just CS > TV etc even though haste isn’t capped. The only exceptions are if inq is wearing off, you get an AoW proc, an HoL proc or you can use HoW. If CS is up and you have one of the four exceptions above, you should use CS, then the exception, then TV. This way, there is no down time. If you use that exception immediately instead, you will be doing Exception > CS > TV > nothing > CS > TV. By doing CS > Exception > TV > CS > TV, you will be using every GCD.

    @cfeduke, don’t try mastery. a proc based system will never outweigh a solidified stat.

  8. Boogieknight says:

    My average item level is hovering in the mid 330’s, I’ve reforged my mastery into hit anywhere I could and I’m currently hit capped. ~9% haste, ~6-7% crit, and whatever mastery is left from reforging.

    My biggest hurdle on DPS is that I’m still having trouble getting away from having to triage my holy power. Having to decide whether I should put Inquisition back up, use Templar’s Verdict, or heal the tank/healer who just took 50% of their max health in one hit is getting very situational and I don’t like it. A dead DPS is no DPS, but a dead tank/healer is pretty much a dead DPS. At what point can I stop backup healing and just DPS?

    My group runs with a resto druid and mana issues abound. If it wasn’t for WoG some times we’d never kill anything.

  9. Bee_Boo says:

    Just one small observation about AW macro, its better to pop Guardian before AW, because of its duration (30s and AW has only 20s) and in my opinion if AW its popped i have to try maximize my time on target and not wasting precious buff on popping my other abilities. If this is by any mean wrong, correct me please.

    And sry for engrish.

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