Comments on: Tougher Ret FAQ 4.0.1 /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/ A WoW Retribution Paladin guide with ret pally gear, leveling, pvp, raiding and stats. Retribution Paladins for World of Warcraft. Sun, 18 Sep 2011 17:18:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Soulfer /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6107 Soulfer Wed, 27 Oct 2010 08:39:13 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-6107 Well I actually have like 400-500 ms Latency as I play from Australia and am constantly sharing my internet connection. The author is completely wrong about the relationship between latency and Haste rating, especially when instant queuing is now an official feature. The game was not designed around Latency. Just because you live overseas should not change stat values/ratings for a class. With queueing, I should be able to use the standard CS>Filler>CS with 1000 Haste rating without losing DPS because I 'stacked too much haste for my latency'. There are too many misconceptions surrounding this matter already. It almost looks like people think latency reduces the cooldown of Crusader Strike in place of Haste and therefore have an advantage if they have high ping. This is a completely stupid idea that started spreading around and I'm glad to have found the source. READ THIS FOR CLARIFICATION: The message the author is trying to convey is that latency limits the number of GCDs you can execute within a certain time frame. At the moment melee GCDs are 1.5 and these include TV, CS and Judgement. Spell GCDs including Holy Wrath and Exorcism SCALE with Haste to a minimum of 1 second GCD unlike Melee GCDs. Supposedly, latency adds to the end of the previous GCD and the beginning of the next GCD as latency is the amount of time a command takes to reach the server and back. Therefore 100 ms latency will equate to .1 second delay in reaching the server and back, which is multiplied by 2 as the first delay is from the server telling your client that the cooldown for CS has ended. You then execute the next command which takes .1 second to reach the server and your CS is executed in-game. However the above is assuming that there are no mechanics implemented in-game to counter this, which in the author's mind disadvantages classes with higher latency and therefore must remove haste as it is conjecturally 'useless', and move it into another stat. This also in no way 'disadvantages' people with better ping and better location, as they are actually getting more benefit from Haste as it scales in rating better than crit and mastery until it's maxed. Unfortunately, the author had overlooked the fact that Blizzard had in fact implemented an early version of the Spell Queuing feature which more or less reduced the disadvantage people got from higher pings. The spell queue works on the client instead of having to communicate with the server. It's like 'buffering time'. Obviously the first command the high ping player sends to the server suffers from lag, but commands thereafter do not have to wait for the cooldown of the previous spell to end before 'buffering' the command. This is evident when you press say CS then Judgement about halfway through the GCD (seems to be the mininum trigger point), the Judgement icon is highlighted. About 1 second later, Judgement is used but the GCD (not Judgement cooldown) is already halfway done. At this point you can press CS again and it will activate in less than a second. At the moment this feature only works with GCD, but will work with actual cooldown skills in Cataclysm and will also have improved features such as a slider bar to increase/decrease trigger point for people with varying levels of latency. IN SHORT Latency no longer plays a role in a GCD based rotation. Even with 1000 ping I will still be using 1 CS 1 Judgement and another CS in 3 seconds. THUS THIS ARTICLE IS DISPROVEN AND SHOULD BE DISREGARDED STACK HASTE RATING UNTIL CAPPED AND PROCEED WITH STAT PRIORITIES REGARDLESS I'm glad to put this out there, and I'm sure Khor will understand the need for public knowledge regarding this matter. Writing this has helped myself to better understand the issue, and for that I thank you, Khor. Well I actually have like 400-500 ms Latency as I play from Australia and am constantly sharing my internet connection.

The author is completely wrong about the relationship between latency and Haste rating, especially when instant queuing is now an official feature.

The game was not designed around Latency. Just because you live overseas should not change stat values/ratings for a class.

With queueing, I should be able to use the standard CS>Filler>CS with 1000 Haste rating without losing DPS because I ‘stacked too much haste for my latency’.

There are too many misconceptions surrounding this matter already. It almost looks like people think latency reduces the cooldown of Crusader Strike in place of Haste and therefore have an advantage if they have high ping. This is a completely stupid idea that started spreading around and I’m glad to have found the source.

READ THIS FOR CLARIFICATION:

The message the author is trying to convey is that latency limits the number of GCDs you can execute within a certain time frame. At the moment melee GCDs are 1.5 and these include TV, CS and Judgement. Spell GCDs including Holy Wrath and Exorcism SCALE with Haste to a minimum of 1 second GCD unlike Melee GCDs. Supposedly, latency adds to the end of the previous GCD and the beginning of the next GCD as latency is the amount of time a command takes to reach the server and back. Therefore 100 ms latency will equate to .1 second delay in reaching the server and back, which is multiplied by 2 as the first delay is from the server telling your client that the cooldown for CS has ended. You then execute the next command which takes .1 second to reach the server and your CS is executed in-game.

However the above is assuming that there are no mechanics implemented in-game to counter this, which in the author’s mind disadvantages classes with higher latency and therefore must remove haste as it is conjecturally ‘useless’, and move it into another stat. This also in no way ‘disadvantages’ people with better ping and better location, as they are actually getting more benefit from Haste as it scales in rating better than crit and mastery until it’s maxed.

Unfortunately, the author had overlooked the fact that Blizzard had in fact implemented an early version of the Spell Queuing feature which more or less reduced the disadvantage people got from higher pings. The spell queue works on the client instead of having to communicate with the server. It’s like ‘buffering time’. Obviously the first command the high ping player sends to the server suffers from lag, but commands thereafter do not have to wait for the cooldown of the previous spell to end before ‘buffering’ the command. This is evident when you press say CS then Judgement about halfway through the GCD (seems to be the mininum trigger point), the Judgement icon is highlighted. About 1 second later, Judgement is used but the GCD (not Judgement cooldown) is already halfway done. At this point you can press CS again and it will activate in less than a second. At the moment this feature only works with GCD, but will work with actual cooldown skills in Cataclysm and will also have improved features such as a slider bar to increase/decrease trigger point for people with varying levels of latency.

IN SHORT

Latency no longer plays a role in a GCD based rotation. Even with 1000 ping I will still be using 1 CS 1 Judgement and another CS in 3 seconds.

THUS THIS ARTICLE IS DISPROVEN AND SHOULD BE DISREGARDED

STACK HASTE RATING UNTIL CAPPED AND PROCEED WITH STAT PRIORITIES REGARDLESS

I’m glad to put this out there, and I’m sure Khor will understand the need for public knowledge regarding this matter. Writing this has helped myself to better understand the issue, and for that I thank you, Khor.

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By: Captoats /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6006 Captoats Sat, 23 Oct 2010 16:39:22 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-6006 @ Nick, theoretically you need -701 haste rating. Of course, that is not right. @ Nick, theoretically you need -701 haste rating. Of course, that is not right.

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By: Nick /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5934 Nick Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:46:35 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5934 I play from overseas so I normaly have over 1000 ms latency, what my haste should be? Thank you in advance, I play from overseas so I normaly have over 1000 ms latency, what my haste should be?

Thank you in advance,

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By: Galahad /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5897 Galahad Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:41:25 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5897 Thanks very much for the haste explanation!! Really helped my understanding. :) Thanks very much for the haste explanation!! Really helped my understanding. :)

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By: MackPally /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5873 MackPally Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:40:19 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5873 @Khor Thanks for all the info without it and trying what everyone on here is saying I would still be sulking. 1st ICC Run since patch 20k DPS on Deathbringer. Now I need to learn how to keep Aggro down. I macroed AW and HoS with GoHoS but doesn't do much for non-AW TV and Exo. Any help with this. I let tank get Aggro at start but usually during a switch I get Aggro. Only died once from it but looks like it may become a problem. Thanks Again @Khor
Thanks for all the info without it and trying what everyone on here is saying I would still be sulking.
1st ICC Run since patch 20k DPS on Deathbringer. Now I need to learn how to keep Aggro down. I macroed AW and HoS with GoHoS but doesn’t do much for non-AW TV and Exo. Any help with this. I
let tank get Aggro at start but usually during a switch I get Aggro. Only died once from it but looks like it may become a problem.
Thanks Again

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By: Yngvarr /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5856 Yngvarr Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:50:56 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5856 Well, after my initial disappointment with the 4.0.1 changes and complete desire not to touch the class I previously loved, I respecced, regliffed and restouned ( ;) sorry for those words) to the latest fashion. Ah, by the way, I use relentless earthsiege, and all my stones are +20 str, except for 2 stones for meta. Haste 751 with ~68-86 lag in ICC, mastery 28, hit 270. Put on all my older plate stuff, although I had a very balanced leather-plate complect earlier, reinstalled the CLCret helper addon, changed my LK Polearm to Shadow Edge and after all was able to easily put 13.6k DPS on heroic Rotface (25man) and 13.2 on Festergut (same 25man H). 25k on Lanathel 25H being bitten first (funny thing, it's one of the 1st times I saw a retribution paladin being bitten first - thanks to the 4.0.1). The key was to pop AW and smash her with hammers immediately after pull, so I was first on aggro meter after tanks. Still "whopping" 9.2 on Putricide, but the battle is very hectic with long runs around, explosions etc., so maybe it's still ok. Overall I'm quite happy with the result and I guess with this tendency, it will be much enjoyable class to play in Cata. New rotation with a lot to watch for, new abilites, more straightforward buffs and stats...all that's good. And thanks Khor for your information. Of late I found myself looking at your site for info on retripals, instead of reading walls of text on elitist, who often tend to overburden themselves with theoretical info. Well, after my initial disappointment with the 4.0.1 changes and complete desire not to touch the class I previously loved,
I respecced, regliffed and restouned ( ;) sorry for those words) to the latest fashion. Ah, by the way, I use relentless earthsiege, and all my stones are +20 str, except for 2 stones for meta.
Haste 751 with ~68-86 lag in ICC, mastery 28, hit 270. Put on all my older plate stuff, although I had a very balanced leather-plate complect earlier, reinstalled the CLCret helper addon, changed my LK Polearm to Shadow Edge and after all was able to easily put 13.6k DPS on heroic Rotface (25man) and 13.2 on Festergut (same 25man H).
25k on Lanathel 25H being bitten first (funny thing, it’s one of the 1st times I saw a retribution paladin being bitten first – thanks to the 4.0.1). The key was to pop AW and smash her with hammers immediately after pull, so I was first on aggro meter after tanks.
Still “whopping” 9.2 on Putricide, but the battle is very hectic with long runs around, explosions etc., so maybe it’s still ok.

Overall I’m quite happy with the result and I guess with this tendency, it will be much enjoyable class to play in Cata. New rotation with a lot to watch for, new abilites, more straightforward buffs and stats…all that’s good.

And thanks Khor for your information. Of late I found myself looking at your site for info on retripals, instead of reading walls of text on elitist, who often tend to overburden themselves with theoretical info.

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By: Dan /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5836 Dan Thu, 21 Oct 2010 04:10:48 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5836 Hey guys, found this site simply by doing some searching. I currently have my ret pally gemmed with all strength. Have reforged all excessive stats into mastery. I only have 484 haste and was thinking it may be more useful for me to re gem into haste instead of strength. By the calculations on this site, I am far below cap, i.e., a good minimum amount. Some feedback would be wonderful. Ikaku @ Suramar Hey guys, found this site simply by doing some searching. I currently have my ret pally gemmed with all strength. Have reforged all excessive stats into mastery. I only have 484 haste and was thinking it may be more useful for me to re gem into haste instead of strength. By the calculations on this site, I am far below cap, i.e., a good minimum amount. Some feedback would be wonderful. Ikaku @ Suramar

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By: FrustratedPally /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5783 FrustratedPally Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:08:25 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5783 Hi Khor, Thank you so much for the website and your consistent and vigilant efforts. I used to enjoy WOW but after this new patch, I am just beyond frustrated. My dps is way down (went from 10k on Saur to 8k), and overall the new mechanics make no sense. Your site is so informational and I am trying, but I am approaching my limit with the new changes. No real reason for it all. Might be a dumb question, but when I am combat, I see yellow script like figures that flash in the center of the screen. What do I do next? My rotation icons keep lighting up, spinning around, etc, very confused at that as well. What do you think? thanks, you rule as always! RR Hi Khor,

Thank you so much for the website and your consistent and vigilant efforts.

I used to enjoy WOW but after this new patch, I am just beyond frustrated. My dps is way down (went from 10k on Saur to 8k), and overall the new mechanics make no sense.

Your site is so informational and I am trying, but I am approaching my limit with the new changes. No real reason for it all.

Might be a dumb question, but when I am combat, I see yellow script like figures that flash in the center of the screen. What do I do next?

My rotation icons keep lighting up, spinning around, etc, very confused at that as well. What do you think?

thanks, you rule as always!
RR

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By: Khor /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5748 Khor Wed, 20 Oct 2010 06:55:21 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5748 @ Dabar - What Captoats said ^^^ :) FCFS isn't a rotation per say, it's a prioritized decision system. Always click the best attack available first. @ Dabar – What Captoats said ^^^ :) FCFS isn’t a rotation per say, it’s a prioritized decision system. Always click the best attack available first.

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By: Captoats /tougher-ret-faq-4-0-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5741 Captoats Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:35:55 +0000 /?p=3029#comment-5741 We don't have a rotation, its a FCFS, so I guess the wording confused you. FCFS stands for First Come First Serve. When two or more moves are off CD, use this clash system to decipher which attack to use. This is saying that whenever you CAN use TV or HoW you should use them above CS, EX, judge, hw, consec in that listed order. We don’t have a rotation, its a FCFS, so I guess the wording confused you. FCFS stands for First Come First Serve. When two or more moves are off CD, use this clash system to decipher which attack to use. This is saying that whenever you CAN use TV or HoW you should use them above CS, EX, judge, hw, consec in that listed order.

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