Comments on: Retribution is Weak, not Broken /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/ A WoW Retribution Paladin guide with ret pally gear, leveling, pvp, raiding and stats. Retribution Paladins for World of Warcraft. Sun, 05 Aug 2012 01:21:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Nickk /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-20495 Nickk Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:17:40 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-20495 Im running 377 ilevel (equipped no pvp items) and I am maxing around 25k as lowest. we ARE broken. Im running 377 ilevel (equipped no pvp items) and I am maxing around 25k as lowest. we ARE broken.

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By: Sarvan /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-11756 Sarvan Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:07:48 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-11756 I run 349 gear and my 5 man dungeon dps is usually in the 9K range (with Flask of Titanic Strength, BoK and SoT). On bosses without running around it can spike up in the 10K or 11K range and it has spiked up to 14K once. On trash I'm all over the place between 5K and 8K usually. On test dummies I can hit in the 9K consistently and with Avenging Wrath I can get up in the 10K range, maybe low 11K, again on the dummies. My struggles come with running around or drawing aggro and having to back off. I run 349 gear and my 5 man dungeon dps is usually in the 9K range (with Flask of Titanic Strength, BoK and SoT). On bosses without running around it can spike up in the 10K or 11K range and it has spiked up to 14K once. On trash I’m all over the place between 5K and 8K usually. On test dummies I can hit in the 9K consistently and with Avenging Wrath I can get up in the 10K range, maybe low 11K, again on the dummies.

My struggles come with running around or drawing aggro and having to back off.

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By: jeff /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-11632 jeff Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:23:39 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-11632 hit 14k last night, new high for my pally :) hit 14k last night, new high for my pally :)

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By: Jeff /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-11606 Jeff Wed, 02 Mar 2011 22:25:30 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-11606 Hey guys, love this site as it's still my main source for all things pally lol. I was just trying to et a grasp on my dps and was wondering what the average Ret is Doin in 5 mans. I'm at a 343 ilvl and do anywhere from 8 or 9 to 11k dps. The 8 or 9 is if there's ALOT of running. My trash mob dps is crap as we have no real aoe it seems lol Hey guys, love this site as it’s still my main source for all things pally lol. I was just trying to et a grasp on my dps and was wondering what the average Ret is Doin in 5 mans. I’m at a 343 ilvl and do anywhere from 8 or 9 to 11k dps. The 8 or 9 is if there’s ALOT of running. My trash mob dps is crap as we have no real aoe it seems lol

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By: novio /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-10734 novio Mon, 07 Feb 2011 09:24:06 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-10734 Hello peeps, My ret is the 1st and most loved character I have, and to be honest, I dont think things are as bad as people think. Ultimately its the way this class has to played now rather than nerfing and broken bits. I've hit 85 and have just upgraded gear to about 333 running only a few heroics so far, but this is what I've noticed so far..... 1. We used to be quite hard core pre cata with aoe. Now, we absolutely suck, I agree, but no-one really cared about trash dps anyways so I dont let DS bother me as a result. 2. Having mentioned the above, we are still quite potent at boss fights, particularly when little movement is required. I find myself gunning top dps spots with mages only and no other class. in heroics with my cirrent 333 gear, I'm peaking at about 12k-13k dps while most in my pugs are doing between 8 and 10k. I am by no means a super arrogant imba player, I'm just noticing that our dps does count when it is needed most. I gladly take mastery over haste any day. Sure, we do get those odd moments when we do have to wait within the rotation, but there are equally, if not more occasions where proc bombardments occur. And when that happens, watch you dps skyrocket. Naturally, one should leave all cd's refreshed for the boss fight. start the fight, build up your 3 HP and let everything else rip, leaving your guardian for last, only after your zealotry is up. Thats the way I play, and I find it works every time. Usually I'm doing the same dps a tank would on trash, but again, it doesnt bother me much. Simple fixes to our class would be adding more damage to DS and fixing a somewhat buggy guardian ( perhaps even drop his CD a touch ). other than that, I think these change is quite wicked. Hello peeps,

My ret is the 1st and most loved character I have, and to be honest, I dont think things are as bad as people think. Ultimately its the way this class has to played now rather than nerfing and broken bits.
I’ve hit 85 and have just upgraded gear to about 333 running only a few heroics so far, but this is what I’ve noticed so far…..

1. We used to be quite hard core pre cata with aoe. Now, we absolutely suck, I agree, but no-one really cared about trash dps anyways so I dont let DS bother me as a result.

2. Having mentioned the above, we are still quite potent at boss fights, particularly when little movement is required. I find myself gunning top dps spots with mages only and no other class. in heroics with my cirrent 333 gear, I’m peaking at about 12k-13k dps while most in my pugs are doing between 8 and 10k.

I am by no means a super arrogant imba player, I’m just noticing that our dps does count when it is needed most. I gladly take mastery over haste any day. Sure, we do get those odd moments when we do have to wait within the rotation, but there are equally, if not more occasions where proc bombardments occur. And when that happens, watch you dps skyrocket.
Naturally, one should leave all cd’s refreshed for the boss fight. start the fight, build up your 3 HP and let everything else rip, leaving your guardian for last, only after your zealotry is up.

Thats the way I play, and I find it works every time. Usually I’m doing the same dps a tank would on trash, but again, it doesnt bother me much.

Simple fixes to our class would be adding more damage to DS and fixing a somewhat buggy guardian ( perhaps even drop his CD a touch ). other than that, I think these change is quite wicked.

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By: Mourdechai /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-10732 Mourdechai Mon, 07 Feb 2011 06:14:49 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-10732 It's because of how zealotry changes the "rotation" than anything else. like, with zealotry, you use crusader strikes followed by templar's verdicts until the cooldown runs out. using anything else is really just a loss of DPS. as far as using one first over the other? it's generally easier to get avenging wrath up while ramping up charges of holy power to use zealotry. by the time avenging wrath is over you should definitely have enough Holy Power to use zealotry immediately following. It’s because of how zealotry changes the “rotation” than anything else. like, with zealotry, you use crusader strikes followed by templar’s verdicts until the cooldown runs out. using anything else is really just a loss of DPS.

as far as using one first over the other? it’s generally easier to get avenging wrath up while ramping up charges of holy power to use zealotry. by the time avenging wrath is over you should definitely have enough Holy Power to use zealotry immediately following.

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By: Mungus /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-10696 Mungus Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:59:22 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-10696 First, thanks for the best retri site I've seen. Hugely useful. Second, regarding Zealotry and Avenging Wrath - I've seen mention elsewhere of the need to use them separately - but why? Up until now I've had a macro which casts both bound to a key, and just hit the key a couple times to run both - is there anything to be gained by running them separately in sequence? And if so - which first? Or is that situational? On the subject of class usefulness, my feeling is that one of the biggest things we've got going for us atm is the ability to self heal with WoG (unfortunate acronym!) and still do useful damage, taking some of the load off the healers. I can see Blizz reducing the holy power drain for this. First, thanks for the best retri site I’ve seen. Hugely useful.

Second, regarding Zealotry and Avenging Wrath – I’ve seen mention elsewhere of the need to use them separately – but why? Up until now I’ve had a macro which casts both bound to a key, and just hit the key a couple times to run both – is there anything to be gained by running them separately in sequence? And if so – which first? Or is that situational?

On the subject of class usefulness, my feeling is that one of the biggest things we’ve got going for us atm is the ability to self heal with WoG (unfortunate acronym!) and still do useful damage, taking some of the load off the healers. I can see Blizz reducing the holy power drain for this.

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By: Mourdechai /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-10618 Mourdechai Thu, 03 Feb 2011 06:15:21 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-10618 @christolight You should still be using holy wrath and consecrate to fill some of the gaps in your DPS rotation. DS is totally worthless though. @christolight

You should still be using holy wrath and consecrate to fill some of the gaps in your DPS rotation. DS is totally worthless though.

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By: Mourdechai /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-10617 Mourdechai Thu, 03 Feb 2011 06:14:08 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-10617 part of the problem with having large gaps in our "rotation"(and i use the term loosely and in quotes) is how crazily irregular they are. if i had that gap occurring at the same time every time i went through my "rotation" it would be much less of an annoyance. The DS issue is that DS is worthless. there is almost no time that DS is worth using in practically any heroic or raid. It is only useful when there are something like 5 or more mobs. how often does that come up? back in BC and vanilla when we had those "issues" we were much more on par(or downright broken) with other DPS and still had a guaranteed raid spot because of(at least) auras and blessings. At this point in the game, no matter what our level of utility, we are being dropped, or forced to heal/tank, for people that give the same buffs we do who do more DPS overall on a boss. part of the problem with having large gaps in our “rotation”(and i use the term loosely and in quotes) is how crazily irregular they are. if i had that gap occurring at the same time every time i went through my “rotation” it would be much less of an annoyance.

The DS issue is that DS is worthless. there is almost no time that DS is worth using in practically any heroic or raid. It is only useful when there are something like 5 or more mobs. how often does that come up?

back in BC and vanilla when we had those “issues” we were much more on par(or downright broken) with other DPS and still had a guaranteed raid spot because of(at least) auras and blessings. At this point in the game, no matter what our level of utility, we are being dropped, or forced to heal/tank, for people that give the same buffs we do who do more DPS overall on a boss.

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By: Dawnsword /retribution-is-weak-not-broken/comment-page-2/#comment-10615 Dawnsword Thu, 03 Feb 2011 04:59:45 +0000 /?p=3968#comment-10615 I agree with most of your points, but there are two that I take issue with. First is the issue of waiting in the rotation. I honestly don't understand the griping about the GCD gaps in our rotation, which Blizzard has said are intentional. I know that in Wrath we were hitting something every GCD, but that isn't healthy for the class. If we are always hitting something every GCD, then there is no room for procs and other reactionary abilities. And to be honest, the gaps we have now pale in comparison to what we had to deal with before. Remember BC, when our only active abilities were Judgment and CS? Or post 1.9 Vanilla, when it was only Judgment, which was on a much longer cooldown? Waiting a couple of seconds isn't a bad thing. That said, ramp up time for HP does need to be looked at somehow. The second thing I take issue with is putting DS back in our single-target rotation. First of all, it isn't going to happen, as Blizzard has said explicitly that AoE attacks are not supposed to be part of single-target rotations. I wouldn't mind a buff to make DS worth casting, or to have it generate HP, but not if it doesn't share a cooldown with CS. I agree with most of your points, but there are two that I take issue with. First is the issue of waiting in the rotation. I honestly don’t understand the griping about the GCD gaps in our rotation, which Blizzard has said are intentional. I know that in Wrath we were hitting something every GCD, but that isn’t healthy for the class. If we are always hitting something every GCD, then there is no room for procs and other reactionary abilities. And to be honest, the gaps we have now pale in comparison to what we had to deal with before. Remember BC, when our only active abilities were Judgment and CS? Or post 1.9 Vanilla, when it was only Judgment, which was on a much longer cooldown?

Waiting a couple of seconds isn’t a bad thing. That said, ramp up time for HP does need to be looked at somehow.

The second thing I take issue with is putting DS back in our single-target rotation. First of all, it isn’t going to happen, as Blizzard has said explicitly that AoE attacks are not supposed to be part of single-target rotations. I wouldn’t mind a buff to make DS worth casting, or to have it generate HP, but not if it doesn’t share a cooldown with CS.

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