Retribution in Cataclysm

From Ghostcrawler: [Source]

The current plan is for Crusader Strike to be baseline, but for Ret to have talents that add to it, and for Divine Storm to be the 51-point talent.I am also surprised at the notion that some of you only AE on trash. 🙂

Keep in mind that the way Retribution works, you aren’t often choosing to exclude one attack in exchange for another. A Fury warrior can just not use Whirlwind and spend the rage on Heroic Strike again. But Rets are not limited by mana as much as cooldowns. You can choose to not do anything when Crusader Strike et al. are on cooldown, or you can use Divine Storm.

I agree it would, and perhaps does, feel crappy to get the same ability that another class gets as a base ability for your 51-point talent. That’s not the design goal.

Quote: This whole paragraph makes no sense to me. Also, Ret is FCFS(priority) we spend our lives excluding one attack in favor of another.

There are a few basic way classes choose what attack to use next. Some classes are limited by resources. If a rogue has 60 energy, she can choose to spend it on attack A or attack B. If attack A hits harder and attack B doesn’t have situational utility, then she’ll use A every time.

A warlock generally isn’t limited by mana within short time scales. A lock’s decisions are more rotational. You want to cast A before you cast B. It’s not that B is bad, just that it becomes more powerful if you do A first. For example, there is little point in casting your first Corruption seconds before the target is about to die.

Paladins have a third model, one more based on prioritization. You aren’t generally limited by mana, and you don’t generally need to do things in a certain order for the mechanics to work, but you do have attacks that you’d rather use when they are available (generally because they hit harder). The decision point comes in because you have a lot of cooldowns, so you can’t just spam your hardest hitting attack over and over again. When your Judgements and Hammer and Crusader Strike are on cooldown, then your choice is probably Divine Storm. (Depending on your gear, DS might even trump CS.) If Divine Storm’s damage went down, then you might prioritize Consecration or Exorcism higher, but you can’t spam those either, so then you’re back to Divine Storm or autoattack. That was my point.

There are things we can do as well to make Divine Storm better at single targets without making it overpowered against groups of targets. Off the top of my head, there are mechanics like the meteor where the damage is divided among the targets. What we are trying to chill out on the warrior, paladin and DK particularly is the “free AE” component. When your AE attacks are balanced against single targets (in the absence of some mechanic like I was suggesting above) then you just get free damage when you can AE as well. This means those classes leap dramatically ahead on meters whenever they are in a situation where they can “cleave.” It also means they aren’t doing anything very differently when faced with groups of mobs over single targets. By contrast the mage might switch to Blizzard or Living Bomb and the rogue has to start using Fan of Knives.

One of the ways we can support more individual abilities on classes is by making them situational. If you use all of your attacks no matter what the situation, then your gameplay tends to get very formulaic and eventually boring. It is also likely to get really complicated if your whole action bar is part of your standard rotation. A better design, we think, is that some abilities get used in AE situations and some get used in single-target situations. There can be overlap, but we’d at least like players to assess the upcoming battle and make some decisions about how to approach it before just going into a tunnel vision button-hitting mode.

Solution: Make CS baseline, put a 1 point 10% dmg to CS buff in its place in the talent tree to replace it.

That is not an announced change. I can understand the frustration of being in a gray area at the moment where you know some information that we have released but much of the details are still under NDA. Unfortunately, if you focus on little tidbits that someone leaked or speculated, then you aren’t going to get the full story. In cases like this we had to put something in the talent tree as temporary filler when we pulled CS. Many of the talent trees have talents that say NYI or just plain don’t do anything. That’s just where we are in the alpha process. If we push data at a stage when someone can’t even talent down a tree then the spec becomes unplayable. As such, we have to make talent tree changes in large chunks at once.

GC – “We are nerfing Divine Storm against single targets because we don’t want AoE abilities to be used against single targets, but we fully expect Divine Storm to continue to be used against single targets.”

More accurate to say that we don’t want single target abilities to get free bonus damage when in groups. That’s not balance-able. For the warrior the solution is to make Whirlwind not cost-effective against single-targets. For the DK, it’s about getting Pestilence back towards a utility role (getting diseases up on groups) and not a massive AE attack. For the paladin, we still want them to use Divine Storm (and you can’t cost-effect a Ret paladin anyway) so the solution will have to be something different.

You might as well have us talent that melee interrupt too. *rolls eyes* Talented basic class functions… story of Rets life. If Divine Storm is going to remain a 51 point talent then it sure as hell better get a side affect greater than a 20% smart heal. All of the other classes that have AoE type talents get a reason to validate their existence within their talent trees.

It’s hard to argue that Rets have to talent into basic class functions when you get so much utility (bubbles, dispels, heals) as core abilities. None of the classes are designed to be fully functional without talent expenditures. Talents are there to distinguish yourself from the other possible specs within your class and to a lesser degree from other players in your same spec.

Q u o t e: How about something like having Crusader Strike apply some kind of debuff to the target . Then have Divine Storm hit anyone with that debuff harder. I think that would get its damage up on single targets but keep it lower on groups.

Yep, both this and the tie-in to Judgements are good ideas. We also like the T102P bonus.

Q u o t e: Well, good, now that I know I won’t be speccing Divine Storm for pvp, I can get better things.

Because PvP is essentially just a lot of 1v1 duels, yes? 🙂

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