Ret Paladin 4.0.1, Day Two

Got a bit more practice in 5-mans today.  Saw my DPS rise to 4-5k with a little more experience.  Gameplay is still scattered and choppy, but I was able to time my Templar’s Verdict better, in addition to finding ways to get to Divine Storm at 3 Holy Power.

Blizzard has recently said they think Ret DPS is too low, and they will be buffing it.  There is no point in calculating anything further until we see what their intentions are.

Here are the biggest complaints I have:

  • Holy Power bar needs to be move-able.
  • Many gaps in DPS rotation where we are literally doing nothing.
  • Three charges of Holy Power gives no notification, like Exorcism and HoL do.
  • Judgement hits like a sponge.
  • Rebuke supposedly procs a seal, making it a part of our rotation, if true.  This seems to be a design flaw, but I could be wrong.  I don’t mind the mechanic, but using something for an entirely different purpose than its intended use is not fun.
  • Burst damage is extremely high for our first 3 or so attacks, then significantly drops off after that.

Here are some other things I noticed:

  • Killing level 78-80 non-elite mobs in Icecrown was cake.  The same, if not better than pre-4.0.1.  Only used Crusader Strike and Templar’s Verdict at close range, Judgement and Exorcism were closing attacks.
  • Did some killing with low level Paladins.  Crusader Strike and Templar’s Verdict are going to make for some quick and efficient killing.  The 4.0.1 Paladin changes for leveling purposes seem outstanding.
  • I had lots of fun killing on my Paladin I am currently leveling.
  • Tackled some of the elite mobs roaming Icecrown to test single target DPS.  I ranged anywhere from 3-6k.  Without any method of healing, I took a beating.  Most of the time I was rocked for about 50% of my HP before the mob went down.  Going to have to be much more careful when fighting harder hitting mobs.

Changes you should be aware of:

  • Ashen Verdict Ring should be the strength version now.  Agility version is no longer decent DPS.
  • My glyph page is changing.  Some glyphs have proven rather worthless while looking very impressive.  This may change with the incoming Blizzard buffs, so stay tuned!
  • Your libram now has a gem slot!
  • Haste is now the best enchant for your cloak.
  • People with tons of hit and exceed the cap of 8% should be reforging that hit into haste, crit, or expertise.  Haste seems to be the popular choice atm.
  • Mastery rating is our lowest prioritized stat atm.  I’m thinking Blizz will fix this in the near future.


  • At 81, we get [Inquisition], which will help our DPS further.  Keep this in mind when you are bludgeoning 5-mans for 3-4k DPS 🙂


  1. yackfisher says:

    I have found that glyphing helped alot I went from 9k crits to 15k whilst just roaming around. I am getting used to the change and starting to enjoy myself again. Buffing us is a must though, as we should be the heavy lifters we once were again: why else play ret?

  2. Pauliee says:

    sounds good. im getting used to it too now. LOL getting mowed down by dks in duels tho.

  3. Chris says:

    I ran ICC tonight with my 10m team and was hitting like a truck, but I was pulling major threat. I swapped out my 10str 10crit gems for 20str gems. Anyone think this has anything to do with the threat problem or is it a rotation thing. Any help would be great. Thanks.

  4. Lykaon says:

    I was killing elite mobs in Icecrown as well. You say that you had no method of healing, but you forget Word of Glory. I was trading off TV and Words of Glory with my 3 holy powers, and I had no problem keeping my health up.

    Sure the mob probably died faster, but saying that we have no method of self-heal is just inaccurate.

  5. Vengeance says:

    I was having the same problems in heroics.. was only doin pulling 5k dps but pulling alot of threat maybe they want us to use hos alot more or maybe they will fix it.. I’m just happy with the ghostcrawler post acknowledging that return is weak and will be getting buffed

  6. Vengeance says:

    Ret* not return.. stupid phone lol

  7. Patricki says:

    iceHUD add on actually has a holly power bar that i have positioned right above my toon right under the top HoL aura flash. So now everything looks clean and in the right place. Helps a lot with keeping my eye on the target and knowing when to hit what.

  8. Drave says:

    So 2 quick questions, what do you mean by “reforging”? is this a new talent or spell? Is gemming for spell power instead of str as a ret pally a possibility?

  9. Triggap says:

    Yea Icehud is great. I moved the Holy Power bar right above my Auras so its sitting on my chat box. Makes it easier to track Holy Power for me. Doesn’t seem to take that long to get x3 but I noticed pockets of inactivity for like 2 secs from popping everything in my priority list. I usually end up taking that as my cast consecration time.

    I don’t think Mastery is as bad as some people seem to see it as. I’m treating it like a second Art of War for the free Zealotry or TV when Zealotry is on CD
    When it procs it gives your TV icon the same effect as EX on AoW proc which is a nice visual clue to tell you that you that the next TV cast is free. Some times it even lines up with x2 HP so the Mastery TV ends up giving you your 3rd HP for another TV. Happens often enough.

    And I haven’t tried a 5-man since my 4k dps yesterday but I did do ICC 10 with my guild yesterday. 7k overall average with 9k on bosses. Pretty much same with everyone else on Recount and we got 8/12 really easy and in shorter time than our usual raid best. It makes the nerf easier to handle when everyone else is doing just as well, casters only slightly better cause of the undead mobs (advantage for us). Putricide went down so fast we skipped Oozes and I think about half the slime we usually get.

  10. Fuasku says:

    Overall, I have to say that I like the mechanics changes and has made playing my ret pally fun again (lets be honest, months and months and months of FCFS facerolling was getting boring). However, I’m not happy about seeing my dps drop like a rock. For example, last night on Saurfang I pulled about 9.5k down from my typical 13-14k. This is completely unacceptable!!!
    Coming from the stand point of a single target raid boss killer (honestly who cares about aoe trash dps) Divine Storm is so worthless I didn’t even spec for it. Since, on a sinlge target T.V. is far better, D.S. comsumes Holy Power, and no more OP 2pc set bonus. Sure my aoe dps will be down but again who cares about that, I’m a raid boss killer and that is all I care about. Anybody else thinking the same way?
    The addon iceHUD is a must have in my opinion. You can move, resize, change graphics and color of the Holy Power bar to make it easly visable. Plus, iceHUD has many other usefull options. Also, Cooldowntimers3 is a useful addon to keep track of, you guessed it, your cooldowns. With both iceHUD and Cooldowntimers3 all the info I need is grouped around the center of my screen and I almost don’t even need my action bars to play.

  11. Gallt says:

    I agree that there are some gaps of waiting for something to cast, as Triggap said, I use this time for cons if it is up. I have not seen anyone say anything about starting off with a long range (before you get to melee range) judgment to get the haste buff going? And, as far as the Icecrown mobs, I agree it is same/better on a SINGLE/small group. I used to run the Argent daily for kill 10 fallen heroes and I would simply charge into a group of 8-10 and drop them all before losing much more than half health, quest complete. Last night, I attacked a group of 5 and nearly died a few times…used 2 bubbles,(you can use divine prot./divine shield back to back now) lots of heals and a mana pot, barely squeaked out of it. I’m sure some more experience will help me with this, but our group dps/AoE’s are shot. Be carful out there solo, no more running around inviniclible-like. And thanks for the note Lykaon, I totally forgot about Word of Glory. (by the way, I am in 4 set t9)

  12. Gallt says:

    By the way…..Great site Khor, really appreciate all the work you put into this. And good tips from everyone

  13. Nic says:

    CLCRet moves HP bar.

    Pretty neat i put it down in between my player and target bars right above my action bars so its right there in the middle about 2 inches below my feet. AND with CLCRet activated it lets set your filler priority, has crusaders automatically TOP priority, and lets you know when u have 3 HP. AAANNNDD when you switch to Holy it leaves the HP bar there and the FCFS buttons go away

    Works for me and its pretty nice.

  14. Veni says:

    My biggest problem is there is no warning when three stacks of holy power are procced as well as the fact that in mele range is seems like I sit there and cast nothing but judgement and crusader strike unless art of war procs, which is not often, spending about 12-15 seconds doing this until I finally get to use templars verdict. There just seems to be a hole in our rotations that I think could be filled by putting divine storm back to the way it was and maybe nerfing the damage on the other attacks to make up for the damage difference.

  15. Bhaalspawn says:

    For your concerns about the Holy Power bar and notification for when you get 3 HPP you can use Power Auras to set up your own system. The option is in Rune/energy and chose Holy Power on the drop down menu. Hope this helps.

  16. justanotherret says:

    @Fuasku i agree. i currently am not specced for divine storm, it’s complete dog poop.

    although with trinks/other procs, critting 23k with TV is lovely

    overall i can see rets becoming the next feral druids in terms of rotation difficulty for dps (this is in the future ofc :P)

    hopefully thats gonna weed out all the ret(ard)adins

  17. justanotherret says:

    OH and pitbull unit frames has a nice holy power bar, it’s just three Holy Light icons in a row over your bar, when you get HP they light up, i like it.

  18. Mathallex says:

    Holytrinity on wowinterface is a great addon for holy power. It has timers for other cooldowns, but you can turn them off and just have a nice clean holypower bar that you can move anywhere.

  19. chyron says:

    I am not sure what WOW game you guys are playing but our Raid Ret dps dropped from 9/12 K to 6k. In PVP we perform like a wet paper bag..two shotted by mages (even with 900 resil). Why should anyone take a Ret pally on a raid. I have a 6k gear score pally and my 5.3 gear score DK can out DPS me now.

    They have made us under powered rogues…with little or no crit. IF you were tired of FCFS..we still have it and with basically 2 buttons to push.In the 4 years of WOW I have never been so close to leaving the game as I am now…and to wait 2 months to have a chance at being competative, there is no way I could stand it.

    Why did they make us a non-viable DPS class/ we are back to BC as RET and I am not healing again..very sad

  20. Lina says:

    I don’t know. I’m not entirely hating the changes but I’m not liking them either. I miss my instant heal that I managed to squeeze in. Especially since the old one didn’t consume 3 Holy Power which just so happens to be what I need to keep my hardest hitting attacks [if they can be called that right now] rolling. I’m not a fan of that. I would much rather have Word of Glory cost half of my mana [which isn’t an issue anymore] that HP.

    I don’t like the fact that our AoE capabilities are so weak. Does it matter? Yes. It so happens that I don’t like to run around doing nothing while everyone else has fun killing “trash” and I also like to group with my friends for random heroics — and I don’t like being bored either. I don’t even feel like bothering to AoE because it truly is so weak.

    The biggest thing that I miss is definitely Seal of Command. That thing they put in the tree is an insult to what that seal used to be.

    At the moment I am getting mixed numbers with TV. I’ve sacrificed crit for haste and my dps has been on roller coaster. Sometimes TV is amazing and sometimes it is lack luster. I had more big numbers when I still had my crit there… so am not sure what’s going on with this. I can see how having haste is the sensible thing to do but if I hit faster for little damage then isn’t it the same as hitting slower with bigger damage? [Was never quite good with math…]

    However, I am happy with the new tree and rotation PvP wise. Now that bg’s will be rated I definitely see myself carrying my paladin down the PvP path. I never liked tanking and I’d rather heal a BG than a raid any day [for side spec.]

    TV really shines in BG situations in my experience thus far.

    I’m really hoping Blizz balances out the dps drop issue because it’s not fair when a mage with half the gear you do does more DPS because Blizz did a boo boo.

  21. Vivian says:

    I don’t like it. If I wanted a rogue I would have rolled a rogue. I honestly think that Blizzard is running out of ideas and just mashing everything together and calling it “new” *eye roll* Warlocks now “evocate” to create ‘soul shards’ and fire mages DoT like warlocks. Now DK’s with crap gear do more damage than my 6.4k GS. Did I seriously work so hard learning my class, mastering my way, so that Blizz can come and make all that effort useless?

    I don’t want to tank. I don’t really want to go back to healing. So basically I have a character that turned into a wanna-be rogue, a class I don’t care for, with a new system that makes me cringe. I keep hearing about people saying, “Now you can’t faceroll DPS” well sorry, but I don’t see how our current “new” rotation is any harder than the last one. The rotation isn’t even that big of a problem… it’s the mechanic and the damage output.

    I’m so busy looking all over the screen between HP and procs and CD’s that sometimes I miss the fact that half of my health is gone because somehow, even with the tremendous loss of dps, I’m still an aggro whore. If you’re going to make me so powerless Blizz you could have thrown in less aggro whore tendencies; do it well rounded.

    I’m going to wait for Cataclysm and giving it a shot until 85. If by then I’m still doing crap damage just because Blizz got bored and wasn’t creative enough to really TRULY rebuild the paladin, then I’m gone. I’ve been with them since vanilla and I don’t really feel like making the richer so they can be this unoriginal and stupid.

  22. Crissee says:

    I really like new play system for my paly. Yesterday I was in guild ICC10, and I was still in top DPS, TV hits around 25-30k same like HoW, and this is awesome, DPS at Surfang normal 12k (this is more than last patch). Boss dummy 7,5k dps. My GS is 6063.

  23. ret4life says:

    If your pve single target dps has dropped after 4.0.1 then you are clearly not playing the toon properly. Did ICC10 Saurfang HC last night. Normally hitting 10k plus pre patch, after reglyphing and a bit of adjustment to gear ( some reforging ) I hit 13.7k. This was also without any major stregnth boost ( warrior shout / DK horn ).

    You might not like to use it longterm as it dumbsdown gameplay, I would recommend RRH addon, to at least get you more familiar with new prioritisation and rotation. The burst we can put out when combining Zealotry and AW is huge but unfortunately only available very 2 mins, adding in Inquisition it’s only going to get better. Unfortunately outside of that burst period you need mastery procs to get your dps going above pre 4.0.1 levels.

    As everyones finding AoE sucks compared to pre 4.0.1 except for when you have zealotry available, in which case again it’s way better.

  24. ret4life says:

    Also, was doing much higher dps on fights that required movement away from the boss. Long of the law being the main reason.. Judging from much further away then giving us a sprint closer, means much less time spent running and off target. Very nice talent.

    Also helps getting back to starting positions faster when not res’able.. Find a cockroach or a mouse 15+ yards in front, judge and you get mini sprint every few seconds 🙂

  25. L says:

    I’m thinking that some of the poeple who are complaining about the changes just have not taken the time to unlearn your Wrath habits and adjust to the new way. I remember reading earlier this year that Blizz wanted to make things a little less forgiving, which I think they have done by redoing the CD’s in a manner to where you really have to watch what you are doing to keep a rotation that allows for something to be available with little to no downtime, and the fact that so much threat is gererated now from DPS (it happens to other classes too), meaning go download Omen and quit trying to climb the Recount charts.

    I know when I first logged on to the new patch I was only doing 3k DPS because of not using the right rotation, and not adjusting to the new glyphs and reforging. Now self buffed on a IF dummy I can pull around 6k DPS on my pally thanks to the adjustments I made. With the fact I am nowhere near a 6k GS I look forward to how much my DPS will grow with better gear.

    The gist…. tweak your gear, your rotation,respec if needed, and practice, practice, practice. Blizz stated things where going to change a lot, so no one should be surprised to how their toons handle now. Adjust and you will be fine.

  26. Bedouin says:

    I did a few VoA’s and some 5 mans and I am in love with the new ret pally. But what I did find is that when I’m fighting groups of mobs my DPS really sucks. But once it’s boss time I’m hitting around 8k DPS… before the patch I was capping at about 6k. Once we are buffed it will be even better!

    But one BIG WARNING is that I was pulling so much threat. But I think that will become better once the tanks learn their new talents as well and we can fight in harmony again.

    Love the patch, love the new pally… I stopped playing my mage (partly because I don’t need anything for him anymore)and my pally is my new main until Cata!

    Thanks Blizz… You made me love my pally again, its not button massing anymore!!!!!!!!!

  27. Astraphos says:

    I have to say, the new system is a big increase for ret dps. Blizzard did exactly what they said they would do: a ret’s dps will be punished if they push the wrong button at the wrong time. Forget facerolling, you have to think smart and get to grips with how a each type of fight begins, continues and ends. Also, glyphing will be a very important factor in differentiating between AoE and single-target dps. PVP is looking amazing too.

    *Two-thumbs up*

  28. Goochi says:

    Since this patch 4.0.1 ret pally dps has been reduced to throwing sponges at the enemy! AOE dps is now pretty non existent and like someone stated above i also ended up not even speccing Divine Storm. I am just so tired of FCFS now and what makes it even worse is that healers now have an extra burden keeping rets up (because we used to self heal well)as not many rets will sacrifice Holy Power to use healing abilities on themselves. I hardly used to get any heals from healers in HC’s and now im dependent on healers. Seal of Command used to hit mobs around me criting up 6-7k on around 4 mobs now i have this useless replacement seal that barely gets into the thousands. I will admit TV hits like a truck but u have to build up HP and with the massive blackhole of sometimes waiting for the bloody FCFS to give you another button to press, that warrior has done 2 or 3 cleaves or whatever, that mage has cast 2 or 3 spells and the rogue has bent the boss over and is having his way with him. I used to top HC’s on recount only getting beaten by arcane mages but i reckon those days are long gone. I also have a warrior alt with 251 gear, my pally is 264 – 277 and the warrior critted 35k in HOR last night!!! (albeit it was against cloth but, ive never had that even with TV) The ret pally is dead unless blizz does something quick. They even admit on the forums our dps is low and yet a new patch comes out and they nerf us even more. I have read the tooltips about the spells and done all the reforging, putting all correct stats like haste and crit and im expertise capped and hit capped but soon as i hit the dummy or HC’s i explode with loads of damage then finish off running round wondering why i pay blizz 9 quid a month. Im so tempted to roll a mage or a warlock like the one that pulled 20k consistent dps in my last ICC.

  29. Andyfml says:

    I have to disagree with alot of this tbh, i was mainly T9 and triumph vendor stuff before patch, hitting about 10k dps in icc10 man on mobs and about 6-7k on bosses, although im not full T10 with one sanc piece being shoulders, im not hitting about the same on mobs – which sucks – but im hitting about 10-12k on bosses. I managed 15k on saurfang yesterday, although i agree im more reliant on heals, i find the pally alot more enjoyable to play. oh and on the crit side of things i crit somewhere between 25-30k alot of the time, but ive seen up to 55k with AW and about 45K with TV. once cata is realised and we hit 81 and have something else to spend holy power on its going to rock. Although i dont play alot of pvp ive noticed if i pop wings, and use AW i one shot alot of low armour chars, which pwns!!

    all i need is an addon of some kind so i can see holy power in the middle of the screen rather than the top corner.

    i think blizzard have made the ret alot more enjoyable to play, even if it is like one AW=100% aggro 😛

    anyhow if anyone knows an addon i can use please tell me.

    cheers guys

  30. heyhoney says:

    guys try out the simple addon called hear kitty from curse. it play tones per holy point makes the rotation cake. this addon was made for cat dps combos luck has it your holy power tricks it to work as combo points.

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